The fresh genealogists the think about it significant you to Nicholas’ wife Clementia is incorporated right here given that, lower than normal facts, she would not stated. When Susanna from the particular later time gotten off to a unique protector, the new wife of that guardian was not said.
This would signify King John invested some time indeed there and you will the possibility of a keen amorous liaison having Clementia exists
Here are some let me reveal an idea advanced of the specific eminent genealogists, however it is reasonable to declare that this new findings try hotly competitive!
That it principle results in a great and you can curious ‘twist’ about story from Joanna, which may attention admirers regarding HBD!
On the surface, there would be nothing to highly recommend people relationship between the hostage, Susanna out-of Wales and you will Clementia, spouse regarding Nicholas de Verdun. But not, the feel of particular genealogists that have overseas hostages, particularly youngsters, could have been that they was in fact commonly placed with loved ones, if any was indeed offered.
Moving forward to 1236, discover an entrance from the Tewkesbury annals which pertains to Joanna’s mother as “King Clemencie!” It reads to some extent:
Today, it is known your mommy out-of Joanna are called Clementia (Clemence?
In this case the fresh monk was obviously indulging inside the medieval legalism. Just before her dying, Joanna got legitimised by Pope. On such basis as you to legitimisation, the fresh new Tewksbury monk obviously grabbed it up on themselves to raise Joanna’s mom with the status regarding Queen, since if their unique mom ended up being King John’s wife! It is true however, one to Queen John and you will Clementia were never ever hitched. Because of the speaing frankly about Joanna’s mommy because the “Queen” Clementia, the newest monk who submitted Joanna’s death try exhibiting their tall admiration to have Joanna, however attempting to alter the true issues.
As for the label out-of Clementia de- Verdun, Paget shows that she try this new daughter from Roger de Dauntsey, out-of Wiltshire. You to definitely genealogist considers it tall one to Clementia hailed away from Wiltshire since he has got pointed out that Queen John got a strong attachment in order to you to definitely county, it being the household out-of his safest partners, brand new Longespee, ilies and you will Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists discovered the label ‘Clementia’ try most rare among English noblewomen regarding the period. In one single desk from ladies’ brands which was collected, there have been merely a couple events of the name “Clementia” off a total of 1407 feamales in the new attempt! The point that someone titled Clementia is of Susanna is extreme.
Therefore! The data was suggestive, but not conclusive, you to from inside the 1228, Susanna, since an effective hostage, obtained out over the latest care of their unique maternal granny, today wife of Nicholas de- Verdun!!
Brand new Scottish genealogists of the MacDuffs’ hold you to definitely Susanna ferch Llywelyn was given birth to 1214 into the Gwynnedd, Wales and passed away c. 1259 for the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She hitched Malcolm MacDuff, Earl of Fife within the 1230 together with one or two college students: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl out of Fife, born 1245, passed away 1270 and you will MacDuff MacDuff born 1247.
However, you’ll find restrict arguments to all or any it supposition! King John got of many mistresses and maybe possibly eight illegitimate people. The caretaker out-of Joanna would have been created circa 1172 and you may marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself came into this world circa 1191 (14 years of age in the course of their particular wedding so you can Llywelyn). Rohese, new known genuine child out-of Nicholas de- Verdun and his awesome partner Clementia was created circa 1210-1213. In the event that Clementia was the caretaker of Joanna, she would come into their own late 30’s, eharmony promo code early 40’s whenever giving birth so you’re able to Rohese! Maybe not hopeless, some state, however, not very likely.